This is an insignificant blog from a middle-aged man's perspective.
03 March 2007
Can I ask you a question?
I have been thinking about this summer's theme and I am working around "Revolution." I am thinking about this for the staff shirts.
I need to know if this is too close to the edge. Give me some feedback...
22 comments:
Anonymous
said...
It's a little bit Black Power/Polish solidarity movement, but I like that it has those connotations. Like we stand for something that's counter-cultural.
It depends on what you think of Marxism. Personally, I wouldn't mind.
On the other hand, what I would mind: "revolution" has been done by everyone. It is swiftly becoming (and has largely become) one of those words that is difficult to take in any meaningful way. It would be sort of like -- though not as bad as -- putting "freedom" across the shirt as a motto.
But what is at stake? It's a t-shirt. Even if there ends up being something just a little better you could have picked, it is no big deal.
Like the commenters before me, I believe this symbol is fine, though the real peril lies in the content it represents, or how you flesh out, define and bound your theme.
The ethos of the revolution could easily be connected to the general cynicism of the postmodern ethos and become broadly about destroying all or anything that has been before.
On the other hand, a good revolution would have a captivating dream that calls people to embody a particular hope, rather than only rail against the status quo.
Tracy's brief take was that it would be fine, though, you will likely get a few irate parents. (Nothing new there, she says.)
Revolution is clearly not a conservative idea and those who are more conservatively bent will not likely be as receptive.
You probably know all of that already though. The symbol alone doesn't upset me, but if the content were unacceptable to people, the symbol might fan their anger.
I think this is a good use of a blog, though, Tony. It's not the whole public, but it is an outside group to provide feedback when you need it.
"On the other hand, a good revolution would have a captivating dream that calls people to embody a particular hope, rather than only rail against the status quo." (Bill Ekhardt)
"it cannot be separated out"... (Karin Heller)
...Jesus Christ our Lord. Through him and for his name's sake, we received grace and apostleship to call people from among all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith. And you also are among those who are called to belong to Jesus Christ (Romans 1:4-6)...
I have no educated answer as the others do, but simply reflections. These three quotes ran through my mind as I looked at the shirt...
Tony, I'm always curious as to what the new shirt design will be, because I like design, and because I know that what's on the shirt was given much thought by you, and that it becomes something else during the summer, sometimes something that perhaps you, or anyone ever expected. I can't imagine a revolution being any other way.
Revolutions, are they ever smooth and sweet like cake frosting. Doubtfully...even those most brilliant and beautiful minds that led revolutions through non-violence and the theme of love contained many difficult circumstance, brutalities, ugliness...to the point of death, assasinations, crucifixitions. The point of a revolution is to change something that is so hard to change it requires a movement of something new, something perhaps unwanted and oppressed by the status quo. Otherwise there would be no need for a revolution.
If people get offended, I think that is unfortunate, but it is a by-product of such a movement, and a neccesary one at that...for the same reason many people are offended when witness something they hate when they know that very same thing makes up a part of themself. It's not like anyone is intentionally trying to offend anyone, which is why I think the design is legit, because I know who designed it. But I do agree that the shirt is only an image...what will define that image is how it is presented, and how the staff embraces and projects it...because no doubt it will stir up some water.
I like the sought after feedback though. Very wise, and it shows that you, Tony, are intentionally trying to not only be revolutionary, but diplomatic for the cause. Where does the revolution bring us back to the beginning...something new to something old, that once was so new nobody had a frickin' clue what to think of it, except those who knew the Man, the Savior.
But I'm not sure I do now. It's not that it's offensive.
I think it's because, well, it's Jesus' hand, right? Clenched in a fist? Or our hands like Jesus', clenched in a fist?
Those who know me know I'm not a pacifist sort. But I don't see Jesus' hand clenched in a fist. I see the red dot, yes, but I see the hand outstretched, even after it's been pierced. That seems much more revolutionary to me.
What is the purpose of the staff shirt as you see it? Unity? Motivation? Recognizability for other? All of these?
I'd say the design accomplishes all 3 with a caveat on the third. It seems to me this design will draw 3 broad respones. 1) Some will be spurred to ask your staffers about the design and positive/Godly conversation will take place about the summer's theme because of it 2) Some will instantly be put- off and angered by the design and will either voice distaste to you and your staff (which may or may not lead to positive conversation) or just leave angry without saying anything 3) Some will not notice or be completely indifferent
You seem to be in a place to best estimate which response will be most common----after all, you know your clientelle better than any of us. Maybe you desire all of these responses at some level....a way to stoak the coals per say.... and this design should accomplish that goal. As long as you feel the symbol is not so strong that it becomes an undue distraction rather than serving the purpose you intend. Hope that makes sense.
On a side note, I personally like the design and would not be offeneded:)
Hope your preparation for summer is going well. It looks beautiful up your way!
Oh Tony- only you could come up with a design that would have people culling various philosophical viewpoints, scriptures, their own thoughts.
If it is Jesus' hand, it is my impression that though he turned over the tables in anger, his hand has been outstretched to an obstinate people rather than clenched in rage at them.
If it is our hand, will we accomplish our Mission when our hands our clenched?
And if you open the hand, it would probably make your design look like it was saying "hi". ;-)
I am reminded of a talk I heard where Moses is standing before the Holy and God says-- "What's in your hand?"
Moses looks over and says "uh. A staff." (as if God didn't really already know what was in his hand)
And God says "throw it down."
So Moses throws down the staff, it turns into a snake, and Moses, like the wuss he is, runs from it. ;-) Then God tells him to pick up the snake by the tail. So he does.
Moral of the story? Moses' staff represented his livelihood- his life. God told him to throw it down so he could do miraculous things with it. Then he tells him to pick it up.
So what's in your hand right now, Tony? What's in your hand that inspired that hand? What gifts/talents/livelihood has He placed in that hand?
Just my random, silly thoughts. You're a talented designer. Liam has been staging revolutions for years. He did it in highschool and gathered friends together-- t-shirts, etc. I don't think it was a revolution against anything in particular but more of a social experiment for him-- could he get people to engage around a theme like revolution with no real end in mind? Yeah. He could. Which I find odd.
Good luck with the summer planning! Much peace and love to you.
What is it you're building? In my mind I see Martin Lurther King, Jr. Is this the type of revolution you are seeking? The steping out of the box, but proclaiming in PEACE with many voices? (Maybe I need to refer to your earlier post to be certain.) I don't know, just some thoughts. Actually, this whole post reminded me of something I once wrote. Its my battle song...I try to march to it. It reminds me of my purpose. Maybe it will inspire you as you start your "revolution."
We are children of God's Nation and We must spread His Salvation (repeat)
Born to die to bring us Life For the Sake of the World was crucified There is No Greater Love Than that of Jesus Christ
We are children of God's Nation and We must spread His Salvation (repeat)
Death of a Cross was not denied For He was the Sacrifice Conquered Death and Rose again He's our Path to Eternal Life
We are children of God's Nation and We must spread His Salvation For His children of all nations God sent His Son for Salvation
I love the idea of revolution in the way you've discussed it here before. Why did you choose to represent power the way you did here?
The open hand in the sky, palm forward, is the most powerful image of revolution I can think of. It's also a popular image of worship now though. Ironically. But until it gets namby pamby, I think worship is where Jesus-following revolution starts.
The way revolution looks in black churches (stereotyping for context) when palms face forward in the air is what Jesus-following power looks like to me.
You look for a design that embodies a revolution of the heart, nay? Why not have have the hand open (just a little) from its fist to wrap around a heart in offering?
By "heart" I could see anything resembling the thing itself, excluding an Indiana-Jones-and-the-Temple-of-Doom-esque heart; THAT I could see as "too close to the edge".
Perhaps you wanted an edgier version. This one is, I believe, a few hundred years old. We could update it. You might remember it from store tee-shirts in the seventies (if you are as old as I.)
Indeed, I was looking for something to retain that edgy flavor and the Revolution theme. I was thinking of a hand holding a heart like a baseball catcher that has just caught a ball with their arm stretched out above their head.
Yet in thinking about a good way to embody ~Revolution of the Heart~, I stumbled upon something so simple (yet complex to a degree) in design; I can't get a picture to show you, but I think I can show you how to find it.
Hold out your hands in front of you and proceed to make two fists. With your hands still clenched, align the knuckes of your hands together (thumb-side facing you with your longest phlange sections flatly resting upon their counterparts on the other hand). Then, relax and extend your thumbs so that the tips touch eachother.
You should see two things when you do this: two hands and something else, both of which support the 2 goals of the ~Revolution of the Heart~. A possible design, eh?
I have been thinking about this summer's theme and I am working around "Revolution." I am thinking about this for the staff shirts.
22 comments:
It's a little bit Black Power/Polish solidarity movement, but I like that it has those connotations. Like we stand for something that's counter-cultural.
It depends on what you think of Marxism. Personally, I wouldn't mind.
On the other hand, what I would mind: "revolution" has been done by everyone. It is swiftly becoming (and has largely become) one of those words that is difficult to take in any meaningful way. It would be sort of like -- though not as bad as -- putting "freedom" across the shirt as a motto.
But what is at stake? It's a t-shirt. Even if there ends up being something just a little better you could have picked, it is no big deal.
Like the commenters before me, I believe this symbol is fine, though the real peril lies in the content it represents, or how you flesh out, define and bound your theme.
The ethos of the revolution could easily be connected to the general cynicism of the postmodern ethos and become broadly about destroying all or anything that has been before.
On the other hand, a good revolution would have a captivating dream that calls people to embody a particular hope, rather than only rail against the status quo.
Tracy's brief take was that it would be fine, though, you will likely get a few irate parents. (Nothing new there, she says.)
Revolution is clearly not a conservative idea and those who are more conservatively bent will not likely be as receptive.
You probably know all of that already though. The symbol alone doesn't upset me, but if the content were unacceptable to people, the symbol might fan their anger.
I think this is a good use of a blog, though, Tony. It's not the whole public, but it is an outside group to provide feedback when you need it.
"On the other hand, a good revolution would have a captivating dream that calls people to embody a particular hope, rather than only rail against the status quo."
(Bill Ekhardt)
"it cannot be separated out"...
(Karin Heller)
...Jesus Christ our Lord. Through him and for his name's sake, we received grace and apostleship to call people from among all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith. And you also are among those who are called to belong to Jesus Christ (Romans 1:4-6)...
I have no educated answer as the others do, but simply reflections. These three quotes ran through my mind as I looked at the shirt...
Tony, I'm always curious as to what the new shirt design will be, because I like design, and because I know that what's on the shirt was given much thought by you, and that it becomes something else during the summer, sometimes something that perhaps you, or anyone ever expected. I can't imagine a revolution being any other way.
Revolutions, are they ever smooth and sweet like cake frosting. Doubtfully...even those most brilliant and beautiful minds that led revolutions through non-violence and the theme of love contained many difficult circumstance, brutalities, ugliness...to the point of death, assasinations, crucifixitions. The point of a revolution is to change something that is so hard to change it requires a movement of something new, something perhaps unwanted and oppressed by the status quo. Otherwise there would be no need for a revolution.
If people get offended, I think that is unfortunate, but it is a by-product of such a movement, and a neccesary one at that...for the same reason many people are offended when witness something they hate when they know that very same thing makes up a part of themself. It's not like anyone is intentionally trying to offend anyone, which is why I think the design is legit, because I know who designed it. But I do agree that the shirt is only an image...what will define that image is how it is presented, and how the staff embraces and projects it...because no doubt it will stir up some water.
I like the sought after feedback though. Very wise, and it shows that you, Tony, are intentionally trying to not only be revolutionary, but diplomatic for the cause. Where does the revolution bring us back to the beginning...something new to something old, that once was so new nobody had a frickin' clue what to think of it, except those who knew the Man, the Savior.
At first I liked it.
But I'm not sure I do now. It's not that it's offensive.
I think it's because, well, it's Jesus' hand, right? Clenched in a fist? Or our hands like Jesus', clenched in a fist?
Those who know me know I'm not a pacifist sort. But I don't see Jesus' hand clenched in a fist. I see the red dot, yes, but I see the hand outstretched, even after it's been pierced. That seems much more revolutionary to me.
how bout "REVOLATION"
On a less philosophical note.....
What is the purpose of the staff shirt as you see it? Unity? Motivation? Recognizability for other? All of these?
I'd say the design accomplishes all 3 with a caveat on the third. It seems to me this design will draw 3 broad respones. 1) Some will be spurred to ask your staffers about the design and positive/Godly conversation will take place about the summer's theme because of it
2) Some will instantly be put- off and angered by the design and will either voice distaste to you and your staff (which may or may not lead to positive conversation) or just leave angry without saying anything
3) Some will not notice or be completely indifferent
You seem to be in a place to best estimate which response will be most common----after all, you know your clientelle better than any of us. Maybe you desire all of these responses at some level....a way to stoak the coals per say.... and this design should accomplish that goal. As long as you feel the symbol is not so strong that it becomes an undue distraction rather than serving the purpose you intend. Hope that makes sense.
On a side note, I personally like the design and would not be offeneded:)
Hope your preparation for summer is going well. It looks beautiful up your way!
Oh Tony- only you could come up with a design that would have people culling various philosophical viewpoints, scriptures, their own thoughts.
If it is Jesus' hand, it is my impression that though he turned over the tables in anger, his hand has been outstretched to an obstinate people rather than clenched in rage at them.
If it is our hand, will we accomplish our Mission when our hands our clenched?
And if you open the hand, it would probably make your design look like it was saying "hi". ;-)
I am reminded of a talk I heard where Moses is standing before the Holy and God says-- "What's in your hand?"
Moses looks over and says "uh. A staff." (as if God didn't really already know what was in his hand)
And God says "throw it down."
So Moses throws down the staff, it turns into a snake, and Moses, like the wuss he is, runs from it. ;-) Then God tells him to pick up the snake by the tail. So he does.
Moral of the story? Moses' staff represented his livelihood- his life. God told him to throw it down so he could do miraculous things with it. Then he tells him to pick it up.
So what's in your hand right now, Tony? What's in your hand that inspired that hand? What gifts/talents/livelihood has He placed in that hand?
Just my random, silly thoughts. You're a talented designer. Liam has been staging revolutions for years. He did it in highschool and gathered friends together-- t-shirts, etc. I don't think it was a revolution against anything in particular but more of a social experiment for him-- could he get people to engage around a theme like revolution with no real end in mind? Yeah. He could. Which I find odd.
Good luck with the summer planning! Much peace and love to you.
I like it. Can I get one?
What is it you're building? In my mind I see Martin Lurther King, Jr. Is this the type of revolution you are seeking? The steping out of the box, but proclaiming in PEACE with many voices? (Maybe I need to refer to your earlier post to be certain.) I don't know, just some thoughts. Actually, this whole post reminded me of something I once wrote. Its my battle song...I try to march to it. It reminds me of my purpose. Maybe it will inspire you as you start your "revolution."
We are children of God's Nation and
We must spread His Salvation (repeat)
Born to die to bring us Life
For the Sake of the World was crucified
There is No Greater Love
Than that of Jesus Christ
We are children of God's Nation and
We must spread His Salvation (repeat)
Death of a Cross was not denied
For He was the Sacrifice
Conquered Death and Rose again
He's our Path to Eternal Life
We are children of God's Nation and
We must spread His Salvation
For His children of all nations
God sent His Son for Salvation
Rock the boat Tony. It's your spiritual gift.
http://nzurimaisha.blogspot.com/
This is a good thought on Revolution.
I love the idea of revolution in the way you've discussed it here before. Why did you choose to represent power the way you did here?
The open hand in the sky, palm forward, is the most powerful image of revolution I can think of. It's also a popular image of worship now though. Ironically. But until it gets namby pamby, I think worship is where Jesus-following revolution starts.
The way revolution looks in black churches (stereotyping for context) when palms face forward in the air is what Jesus-following power looks like to me.
I removed the anonymous comment regarding being really edgy...
tb
You look for a design that embodies a revolution of the heart, nay? Why not have have the hand open (just a little) from its fist to wrap around a heart in offering?
By "heart" I could see anything resembling the thing itself, excluding an Indiana-Jones-and-the-Temple-of-Doom-esque heart; THAT I could see as "too close to the edge".
I'm lovin' your choice of colors for the design.
Dewicus, is this what you were looking for?
Calvin's Crest
Perhaps you wanted an edgier version. This one is, I believe, a few hundred years old. We could update it. You might remember it from store tee-shirts in the seventies (if you are as old as I.)
Indeed, I was looking for something to retain that edgy flavor and the Revolution theme. I was thinking of a hand holding a heart like a baseball catcher that has just caught a ball with their arm stretched out above their head.
Yet in thinking about a good way to embody ~Revolution of the Heart~, I stumbled upon something so simple (yet complex to a degree) in design; I can't get a picture to show you, but I think I can show you how to find it.
Hold out your hands in front of you and proceed to make two fists. With your hands still clenched, align the knuckes of your hands together (thumb-side facing you with your longest phlange sections flatly resting upon their counterparts on the other hand). Then, relax and extend your thumbs so that the tips touch eachother.
You should see two things when you do this: two hands and something else, both of which support the 2 goals of the ~Revolution of the Heart~. A possible design, eh?
(well, notsomuch support "goals" as embody some of the essences of the revolution.)
To tell the truth is revolutionary.
-Antonio Gramsci
And to live in the Truth is mind blowing.
i like the jesus is my co pilot one. Rock the revo baby!
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